Full Event Transcript
>>Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. This is your captain speaking. We will soon be
>>taking off on our way to out. Please keep your seatbelts faster than remain in your seats. We will be experiencing turbulence until we are above the clouds. Yeah, Yeah. Ladies and gentlemen, we’re now cruising altitude. Sit back and enjoy the ride.
Altitude is a community of thought leaders and pioneers, cloud architects and enlightened network engineers who have individually and are now collectively leading their own teams and the industry on a path to lift cloud networking above the clouds. Empowering enterprise I t toe architect design and control their own cloud network. Regardless of the turbulent clouds beneath them, it’s time to gain altitude. Ladies and gentlemen, Steve Mullaney, president and CEO of Aviatrix, the leader of multi cloud networking. All right, Yeah, yeah. Good morning, everybody here in
>>Santa Clara as well as to the what? Millions of people watching the Livestream Worldwide. Welcome to altitude. 2020 right? So we’ve got a fantastic event today. I’m really excited about the speakers that we have today and the experts that we have and really excited to get started. So one of things I wanted to just share was This is not a one time event. It’s not a one time thing that we’re going to do. Sorry for the aviation analogy, but, you know, sherry way aviatrix means female pilot. So everything we do as an aviation theme, this is a takeoff for a movement. This isn’t an event. This is a take off of ah, movement. Ah, multi cloud networking movement and community that we’re inviting all of you to become part off. Um, and and why we’re doing that is we want to enable enterprises to rise above the clouds, so to speak, and build their network architecture regardless of which public cloud they’re using, whether it’s one or more of these public clouds.
So the good news for today there’s lots of good news, but this is one good news is we don’t have any PowerPoint presentations.
No marketing speak. We know that marketing people have their own language. We’re not using any of that in no sales pictures. Right? So instead, what are we doing? We’re gonna have expert panels. We’ve got Simona shard of Gartner here. We’ve got 10 different network architects, cloud architects, real practitioners, they’re going to share their best practices and their real world experiences on their journey to the multi cloud. So before we start, everybody know what today is in the US, it’s Super Tuesday. I’m not gonna get political. But super Tuesday, there was a bigger Super Tuesday that happened 18 months ago, and aviatrix employees know what I’m talking about. 18 months ago on a Tuesday, every enterprise said, I’m going to go to the cloud.
And so what? That was the Cambrian explosion for cloud for the enterprise. So, Frank Cabri, you know what a Cambrian explosion is. He had to look it up on Google. 500 million years ago, What happened? There was an explosion of life where it went from very simple single cell organisms to very complex multi cell organisms. Guess what happened 18 months ago on a Tuesday. I don’t really know why, but every enterprise, like I said, I’ll woke up that day and said, Now I’m really going to go to Cloud. And that Cambrian explosion or cloud went meant that I’m moving from very simple single cloud, single use case, simple and environment to a very complex multi cloud complex use case environment, and what we’re here today is we’re going to go address that. And how do you handle those?
Those those complexities? And when you look at what’s happening with customers right now, this is a business transformation, right? People like to talk about transitions. This is a transformation, and it’s actually not just a technology transformation. It’s a business transformation. It started from the CEO and the boards of enterprise customers, where they said, I have an existential threat to the survival of my company. If you look at every industry who they’re worried about is not the other 30 year old enterprise, What they’re worried about is the three year old enterprise that’s leveraging cloud that’s leveraging AI, and that’s where they fear that they’re going to actually get wiped out, right? And so because of this existential threat, this is CEO lead. This is board lead. This is not a technology lead.
It is mandated in the organizations. We are going to digitally transform our enterprise because of this existential threat in the movement to cloud is going to enable us to go do that. And so I t is now put back in charge If you think back Just a few years ago in Cloud, it was led by Dev Ops. It was led by the applications and it was like I said before, they’re Cambrian. Explosion is very simple. Now, with this Cambrian explosion and enterprises getting very serious and mission critical, they care about visibility. They care about control. They care about compliance, conformance everything. Governance. I t is in charge and and that’s why we’re here today to discuss that. So what we’re gonna do today is much of things. But we’re gonna validate this journey with customers.
Did they see the same thing? We’re gonna validate the requirements for multi cloud because, honestly, I’ve never met an enterprise that is not going to be multi cloud. Many are one cloud today, but they all say I need to architect my network for multiple clouds because that’s just what the network is there to support. The applications and the applications will run and whatever cloud it runs best in, and you have to be prepared for that. The second thing is, is architecture again with I t in charge, you architecture matters, whether it’s your career, whether it’s how you build your house. It doesn’t matter. Horrible architecture. Your life is horrible. Forever Good architecture. Your life is pretty good. So we’re gonna talk about architecture and how the most fundamental and critical part of the architecture and that basic infrastructure is the network. If you don’t get that right, nothing works right way more important and compute way. More important, been storage network is the foundational element of your infrastructure. Then we’re gonna talk about Day two operations.
What does that mean? Well, day one is one day of your life. Who you wire things up. They do. And beyond. I tell everyone in networking and I t It’s every day of your life. And if you don’t get that right, your life is bad forever. And so things like operations, visibility, security, things like that. How do I get my operations team to be able to handle this in an automated way? Because it’s not just about configuring it in the cloud. It’s actually about how do I operationalize it? And that’s a huge benefit that we bring is aviatrix. And then the last thing we’re gonna talk and it’s the last panel we have. I always say you can’t forget about the humans, right? So all this technology, all these things that we’re doing, it’s always enabled by the humans. At the end of the day, if the humans fight, it won’t get deployed. And we have a massive skills gap in cloud, and we also have a massive skill shortage.
You have everyone in the world trying to hire Cloud Network Architects, right? There’s just not enough of them going around. So it aviatrix we said, as leaders do, we’re gonna help address that issue and try to create more people. We created a program we call the Ace Program again. Aviation theme stands for aviatrix certified engineer Very similar to what Cisco did with CCE’s. Cisco taught you about I P networking. A little bit of Cisco, we’re doing the same thing. We’re gonna teach network architects about multi cloud networking and architecture. And yeah, you’ll get a little bit of a VHS training in there. But this is the missing element for people’s careers and also within the organization. So we’re gonna we’re gonna go talk about that. So great. Great event. Great show. We try to keep it moving next one to introduce my host. He’s the best in the business. You guys have probably seen him multiple rolling times. He’s the co CEO and co founder of the Tube. John Furrier.
>>Yeah, right. Okay, Awesome.
>>Great. Great speech. They’re awesome. I totally agree with everything you said about the explosion happening. And I’m excited here at the heart of Silicon Valley to have this event. It’s a special digital event with the Cube, and aviatrix will be live streaming to millions of people. As you said, Maybe not a 1,000,000. Maybe not really. Take this program to the world. This is a really special for me because multi cloud is the hottest wave and cloud and cloud. Native networking is fast becoming the key engine of the innovation. So we got an hour and 1/2 of action packed programming. We have a customer panel to customer panels. Before that, Gartner is going to come on to talk about the industry. We have a global system integrators that talked about how they’re advising and building these networks and cloud native networking. And then finally the aces aviatrix certified engineers going to talk more about their certifications and the expertise needed. So let’s jump right in. Let’s ask Simone regard to come on stage from Gartner will
>>kick it off. Yeah, right. Yeah.
>>Okay. So kicking things off, sitting started Gardener The industry experts on cloud really kind of more to your background. Talk about
>>your background. Before you got the gardener
>>before Big Garden, it was a chief network architect of a Fortune five company with thousands of sites all over the world. And I’ve been doing everything in i t From a C programming the 90 to a security architect to a network engineer to finally becoming a network analyst.
>>She rode the waves. Now you’re covering in the marketplace with hybrid cloud and now moving quickly to multi cloud is really there was talking about cloud natives been discussed, but the networking piece is super important. How do you see that evolving?
>>Well, there we see enterprises Upton Cloud. First thing you do about networking the initial phases, the eater go on a very ad hoc way is usually led by known known. I t like a shadow I to application. People are sometimes a Dev ops team and it’s it just goes as it’s completely unplanned. Create vpc We have Tenderized with different accounts and the create match to manage them, and there are direct connect or express route to any of them. So that’s that’s a first approach. And on the other side again, within the first approach, you see what I call the lift and shift where we see like enterprise. I t trying to basically replicate what they have in a data center in the cloud. So they spend a lot of time planning doing Direct Connect putting Cisco routers and F five and Citrix and any Checkpoint Palo Alto devices at the end of that century. Moving that to the cloud, I
>>got to ask you the ah ha moment. Going to come up a lot of our panels is where people realize that it’s a multi cloud world. I mean, they either inherit clouds. Certainly they’re using Public cloud and on premises is now more relevant than ever. When’s that? Ah ha moment that you’re seeing where people go. Well, I gotta get my act together and get on
>>the first. But even before multi cloud. So these two approach of 1st 1 like the add a wake. It doesn’t scale at some point ideas to save them because they don’t think about the to the nothing about operations. We have a bunch of VPC and multiple clouds the other way. If you do the lift and shift week, they cannot take any advantages of the cloud, the elasticity, auto scaling pay by the drink, this future, all agility features. So they both realize okay, need of these words are good, so I have to optimize that. So I have to have a mix of what I call it the cloud Native services within each cloud. So they started up things like the AWS constructor is your construct or Google construct, and that’s what I called up optimal face. But even that they realized after that are very different. All these approaches defend the cloud, are different identities, is completely difficult to manage across clouds.
I mean, for example, AWS accounts that subscription and and Azure and GC P there projects. It’s a real mess, so they realize, well, I can’t really like concentrate used the cloud, the cloud product and every cloud that doesn’t work. So I have. I’m going multi cloud. I like to abstract all of that still want to manage the cloud from an FBI point of view. I don’t necessarily want to bring my incumbent data center products, but after that, in a more AP, I driven
>>not the not scaling piece and you were mentioning. That’s because there’s too many different clouds. Yes, that’s the piece there. What are they doing? What? They were building different development teams and software. What’s the solution?
>>Well, this is the solution is to start architect in the cloud, and that’s the third phase. I call that the multi cloud architect face where they have to think about abstraction that works across cloud fact. Even across one cloud, it might not scale as well. If you start having, like 10,000 security group in AWS, that doesn’t scale. You have to manage that. If you have multiple vpc, it doesn’t scale. You need 1/3 party identity provider, so it barely skills within one cloud. If you go multiple cloud, it gets worse and worse. The way in here, what’s your thoughts?
>>I thought we said this wasn’t going to be a sales pitch for aviatrix. You just said exactly what we do. So anyway, just a joke. What do you see in terms of of where people are in that multi cloud like a lot of people. You know, Everyone I talked to it started in one cloud, right? But then they look and they say, Okay, but I’m not going to move to Azure. And I’m gonna Do you see a similar thing?
>>Well, yes, they are moving, but they’re not. There’s not a lot of application that she was a tree cloud at once. They move one app in the desert won’t happen. It will happen. Google. That’s what we see so
>>far. Okay? Yeah. I mean, one of the the mistakes that people think is they think multi clouds. No one is ever going to go multi cloud for arbitrage. They’re not going to go and say, Well, today, I might go into Azure because I got a better rate of my instance. That’s never Do you agree that’s never gonna happen. What I’ve seen with enterprise is I’m gonna put the workload and the app, the app decide where it runs best. That maybe azure, maybe Google and for different reasons. And they’re going to stick there and they’re not gonna move. Let me. Actually, infrastructure has to be able to support from a networking to be able to do that. Do you agree with that?
>>Yes, I agree. And one thing is also very important. Is connecting to the cloud is kind of the easiest thing. So, though, why their network part of the cloud connectivity to the cloud is kind of simple, I agree. PC VP and director Next that’s a simple part was difficult, and even the provisioning part is easy. You can use terraform and create the pieces and peanuts across the tree Cloud provider. What’s difficult is the day to day operations, so it’s
>>a fine day. Two operations. What is that? What does that actually mean?
>>This just the day to day operations. After you know the natural, let’s add an app that’s out of server less troubleshoot a problem. So
>>what? I mean provisioning. So your life if something changes, not what you do,
>>so what’s the big concerns? I want to just get back to this cloud native networking because everyone kind of knows what cloud native APS are. That’s the hot trend. What is Cloud Native Network? How do you How do you guys define that? Because that seems to be the hottest part of the multi cloud wave that’s coming is cloud native networking,
>>but there’s no in official Gardner definition, but I can create one on the spot there to do it. I just want to leverage the cloud construct in a cloud. Api I I don’t want to have to install it. Like, for example, the first version was, Let’s put a virtual router that doesn’t understand the cloud environment if I have. If after install a virtual machine, it has to be cloud aware. It has to understand the security group. If it’s a router, it has to be programmable to the cloud api I and understand the cloud environment.
>>You know one thing I hear a lot from either CSOs or CIOs or CSOs in general, is this idea of. I’m definitely going AP ice. So it’s been an AP economy, So AP eyes key on that point. But then they say, Okay, I need to essentially have the right relationship with my suppliers, a k clouds, you call it above the clouds. So the question is, what do I do from an architecture standpoint? Do I just hire more developers and have different teams because you mentioned that’s a scale point. How do you solve this problem of? Okay, I got AWS GC P or azure or whatever. Do I just have different teams or just explosive dies? Where’s that optimization? Where is the focus?
>>Well, I think what you need from an interest point of view is a way a control plane across the tree clouds and be able to use the AP eyes of the cloud to build networks, but also to troubleshoot them and do day two operations. So you need a view across that tree cloud that takes have routing connectivity. That’s the force.
>>The aviatrix plug of you were right there.
>>So? So how do you see? So again your Gartner. You, you You see the industry. You better network architect. How do you see this? This playing out? What are the what are the, uh, legacy incumbent client server on from networking people going to dio. Well, the first is people like aviatrix. How do you see that? Playing out?
>>Well, obviously all the incumbent like Arista Cisco, Juniper NSX, they want to basically do the lift and ship it they want to bring and you know the M. I want to bring in a sex on the cloud. They call that NSX everywhere, and Cisco wants being. You start in the cloud. They call that AI anywhere, right? So everyone and and then this cloud vision for my sister and contrail is in the cloud, so they just want to bring the management plane in the cloud, but it’s still based. Most of them is still based on putting a VM DeMint controlling them. You extend your management console to the cloud that’s not really cloud Native cloud native. You almost have to build from scratch.
>>We like to call that cloud naive. So close. One letter.
>>So that was a big conference. Reinvent. Take the tea out of cloud native. It’s cloud naive. I went super viral. You guys got T shirts. Now I know you love, but but that really, ultimately is kind of double edged sword. You could be naive on the on the architecture side and rolling up, but also suppliers are can be naive. So how would you define who’s naive and who’s not?
>>Well, in fact, they evolving as well. So, for example, in Cisco, you it’s a little bit more native than other ones because they’re really see in the cloud you can you really like? Configure AP Eyes Cloud and NSX is going that way, and so is arrested. But they’re incumbent. They have their own tools, is difficult for them. They’re moving slowly, so it’s much easier to start from scratch of a new like, you know, a network company started a few years ago. There’s only really to aviatrix was the 1st 1 They’ve been there for a least three or four years. And there’s other ones like Alkire, for example, that just started now the doing market activity. But they want to create an overlay network across the cloud and start doing policies and frank abstracting all the clouds within one platform.
>>So I gotta ask you interviewed executive at VM Ware, Sanjay Poonam, he said to me and say last week only two networking vendors left Cisco and VMWare.
>>What’s your response? What’s your response to that? Honestly, I mean, when you have these waves new brands that emerged like Aviatrix, others. So I think there’ll be a lot of startups coming out of the woodwork.
>>How do you respond to that comment.
>>Well, there’s still a data centered. There’s still like a lot of action on campus, and there’s the one. But from the cloud provisioning and cloud networking in general, I mean, they’re being And I think you know, in fact, you don’t even need them to start with. You can. If you’re small enough, you can just keep. If you’re in AWS, you can use the AWS construct. They have to insert themselves. I mean, they’re running behind you. There are certainly incumbents I love the term. Andy Jessie is that Amazon Web services uses old guard new guard to talk about the industry.
What does the new guard have to do? The new and new brands and emergent? Is it be more Dev ops oriented? Net. Net SEC ops Is that Net ops? Is it program ability? These are some of the key discussions we’ve been having. What’s your view on how you see this program ability?
The most important part is they have to make the network simple for the deaf teams you cannot. You cannot make a phone call and get it declined in two weeks anymore, So if you move to the cloud, you have to make that cloud construct as simple enough so that, for example, a Dev team could say Okay, I’m gonna create this vpc but these VPC automatically being associate your account, you cannot go out on the Internet. You have to go the transit vpc So there’s a lot of action in terms of the I am part, and you have to put the control around them too. So to make it as simple as possible, you guys both I mean, you’re the CEO, see aviatrix, but also, you got a lot of experience going back to networking, going back to what I call the OS. I’m days with Russell. Folks know what that means, but you guys know this means I don’t ask you the question. As you look at the future of networking here, a couple objections. All the cloud guys got networking. We’re all set with them. How do you respond to the fact that networking is changing and the cloud guys have their own networking? What? Some of the pain points that’s going on premises in these enterprises. So are they good with the clouds? What needs what are the key things that’s going on in networking that makes it more than just the cloud networking. What’s your take as
>>well as I said earlier, that once you could easily provisioned in the cloud you can easily connect to. The cloud is when you start troubleshooting application in the cloud and try to scale. So this that’s where the problem occurs.
>>What’s your take on it?
>>Um, and you’ll hear from the from the customers that we have on stage. And I think what happens is all the clouds, by definition designed to the 80 20 rule, which means they’ll design 80% of the basic functionality and lead the 20% extra functionality that, of course, every enterprise needs. Leave that to IAS visa like aviatrix, because why? Because they have to make money, they have a service and they can’t have huge instances for functionality that not everybody needs. So they have to design to the common, and that’s they all do it right to have two, and then the extra. The problem is that Cambrian explosion that I talked about with enterprises, that’s all. That’s what they need, that they’re the ones who need that extra 20%. So that’s that’s what I see is is there’s always going to be that extra functionality that in an automated and simple way that you talked about but yet powerful with the with the visibility and control that they expect of on Prem that that’s that kind of combination that you know in the angle that people like us are providing some I want to ask. You gonna ask some of the cloud architect customer panels? It’s the same question this pioneers doing some work here, and there’s also the laggards would come in behind the early adopters. What’s going to be the tipping point? What is some of those conversations at the cloud architects they’re having out there? Or What’s the signs that they need to be on this multi cloud or cloud native networking trend? What are some of the signals that are going on their environment? What are some of the thresholds are? There are things that are going on there you can pay attention to well, once they have applications in multiple clouds and they have to get wake up a twitter morning to troubleshoot them, they don’t know it’s important. So I think that that’s where the rubber hits the road. But as I said, it’s easier to probably because, okay, it’s AWS. It’s easy. Use a transit gateway, put a few VP sees and you’re done and use. Create some presidents like Equinix and do direct Connect and Express Rob with Israel. That looks simple as the operations. That’s when you realize okay, now I need to understand our car networking works also need a tool that give me visibility and control Not, But not only that. I need to understand the basic underneath it as well.
>>What are some of the day in the life scenarios that you envision happening with multi cloud? Because if you think about what’s happening, it kind of has that same vibe of interoperability choice, multi vendor because they have multi cloud, especially multi vendor, these kind of old paradigms that we’ve lived through the client server and Internet working wave. What is some of those scenarios of success? And that might be possible. It would be possible with multi cloud and cloud native networking.
>>Well, I think once you have a good enough visibility to satisfy your customers, you know not only like to keep the service running an application running but to be able to provisioned fast enough, I think that’s what you want to achieve.
>>Final question advice for folks watching on the livestream. Um, if they’re sitting there is a cloud architect or a CIO. So what’s your advice to them right now in this market cause honestly, Public cloud check hybrid cloud They’re working on that that gets on premises Done now multi cloud right behind it. What’s your advice?
>>The first thing you should do is really try to understand cloud networking for each of the cloud providers and then understand a limitation and is what the cloud service provider offers enough. Or you need to look to 1/3 party. But you don’t look at 1/3 party to start with, especially an incumbent one. So it’s tempting to say on and have a bunch of the five experts. Nothing against that five. I’m going to bring my five in the club when you can use any will be that ultimately understand Easy’s and auto scaling and so on, and you understand, that’s much simpler, but sometimes you need you have five because you have requirements you have, like I rules and that kind of stuff that used for years. We kind of do. It’s okay. I have requirements are not met. I’m going to use legacy stuff and then you have to start thinking, Okay, What about visibility? Control about the trick out. But before you do that, you have to understand the limitations of the existing cloud providers first. Try to be as effective as possible until things don’t work. After that, you can start taking
>>great insight. Thank you for coming on. Someone charged with Gardner. Thanks for sharing. Thank you. Appreciate it.
>>Yeah, yeah, yeah,
>>Informatica is known as the leading Enterprise Cloud Data Management Company. We are known for being the top in our industry and at least five different products. Over the last few years, especially, we’ve been transforming into a cloud model which allows us to work better with the trends of our customers. In order to say, agile and effective in the business, you need to make sure that your products and your offerings are just as relevant in all these different clouds than what you’re used to and what you’re comfortable with. One of the most difficult challenges we’ve always had is that because we’re a data company. We’re talking about data that a customer owns. Some of that data may be in the cloud. Some of that data may be on Prem. Some of that data may be actually in their data center in another region or even another country. And having that data connect back to our systems that are located in the cloud has always been a challenge. When we first started our engagement with aviatrix, we only had one plan that was Amazon. It wasn’t till later that came up and all of a sudden we found a solution we already had in place for aviatrix already working at Amazon now works and measure as well. Before we knew it, GC P came up, but it really wasn’t a big deal for us because we already had the same solution and Amazon and Azure now just working in GCB by having a multi cloud approach. We have access to all three of them, but more commonly it’s not just one. It’s actually integrations between Wei have some data and ensure that we want to integrate with Amazon. We have some data in G CPI that we want to bring over to a data lake. And sure, one of the nice things about aviatrix is that it gives a very simple interface that my staff can understand and use and manage literally hundreds of VPN around the world while talking to and working with our customers who are literally around the world. Yeah, now that we’ve been using aviatrix for a couple years, we’re actually finding that even problems that we didn’t realize we had were actually solved even before we came across the problem. And it just worked. Cloud companies as a whole are based on reputation. We need to be able to protect our reputation, and part of that reputation is being able to protect our customers and being able to protect. More importantly, our customer’s data. Aviatrix has been helpful for us in that we only have one system that can manage this whole huge system. In a simple, easy direct model. Aviatrix is directly responsible for helping us secure and manage our customers not only across the world, across multiple clouds. Users don’t have to be VPN or networking experts. In order to be able to use the system, all the members on my team can manage it all the members, regardless of their experience, can do different levels of it. One of the unexpected advantages of aviatrix is that I don’t have to sell it to my management. The fact that we’re not in the news at three o’clock in the morning or that we don’t have to get calls in the middle of the night. No news is good news, especially in networking. Things that used to take weeks to build are done in hours. I think the most important thing about a matrix is it provides me consistence. Aviatrix gives me a consistent model that I can use across multiple regions. Multiple clouds, multiple customers.
>>Okay, welcome back to altitude. 2020 for the folks on the Livestream. I’m John Furrier Steve Mullaney with CEO of aviatrix for our first of two customer panels on cloud with Cloud Network Architects. We got Bobby, Will be They gone. Luis Castillo, National Instruments and efficient with fact set. Guys,
>>welcome to the stage for this digital event. Come on up.
>>Hey, good to see you. Thank you. Okay. Okay. Right. Yeah.
>>Okay. Customer panel. This is my favorite part. We get to hear the real scoop. Get the gardener. Given this, the industry overview certainly multi clouds, very relevant and cloud native networking is the hot trend with the live stream out there in the digital events of guys. Let’s get into it. The journey is you guys are pioneering this journey of multi cloud and cloud native networking and soon going to be a lot more coming. So I want to get into the journey. What’s it been like? Is it really got a lot of scar tissue? Uh, what is some of the learnings?
>>Yeah, absolutely. So multi Cloud is whether or not we accept that as network engineers is a reality. Um, like Steve said about two years ago, companies really decided to just to just bite the bullet and move there. Um, whether or not whether or not we accept that fact, we need to now create a consistent architecture across across multiple clouds and that that is challenging, um, without orchestration layers as you start managing different different tool sets and different languages across different clouds. So that’s it’s it’s really important to start thinking about that. You guys are on the other Panelists here this different phases of this journey, some come at it from a networking perspective. Some command from a problem. Troubleshooting. What? What’s your experiences?
>>Yeah, so, uh, from a networking perspective, it’s been incredibly exciting. It’s kind of a once in a generational opportunity to look at how you’re building out your network. You can start to embrace things like infrastructure as code that maybe your peers on the systems teams have been doing for years. But it just never really worked on Prem. So it’s really it’s really exciting to look at all the opportunities that we have and then all the interesting challenges that come up that you, uh, that you get to tackle and in fact said, You guys are mostly aws, right?
>>Right now, though, where we are looking at multiple clouds, we have production workloads running in multiple clouds today, but a lot of the initial work has been with them, and you see it from a networking perspective. That’s where you guys are coming at it from you. We evolved more from a customer requirement perspective started out primarily is AWS. But as the customer needed mawr resources manager like HPC, you know, Azure A D. Things like that even recently Google, Google Analytics. Our journey has evolved into more of a multi cloud environment. Steve weigh in on the architecture because this has been the big conversation. I want you to lead this sector.
>>Yeah, so I mean, I think you guys agreed that journey. It seems like the journey started a couple of years ago, got real serious. The need for multi cloud. Whether you’re there today. Of course it’s going to be there in the future, so that’s really important. I think the next thing is just architecture. I love to hear what you you had some comments about architecture matters. It all starts. I mean, every enterprise I talked to maybe talk about architecture and the importance of architecture. Maybe Bobby is from architectural perspective. We started our journey five years ago. Wow. Okay. And we’re just now starting our fourth evolution of our network architect. Okay? And we call it networking security. Net SEC versus just network on that fourth generation architectures be based primarily upon Palo Alto networks and aviatrix aviatrix doing the orchestration piece of it. But that journey came because of the need for simplicity. The need for a multi cloud orchestration without having to go and do reprogramming efforts across every cloud as it comes along, right?
>>I guess. The other question. I I also had around architectures also, Louise, maybe just talk about I know we’ve talked a little bit about scripting right and some of your thoughts on that. Yeah, absolutely. So, um, so for us, we started, we started creating, Ah, the network constructs with cloud formation. And we’ve stuck with that for the most part. What’s interesting about that is today on premise, we have a lot of a lot of automation around around how we provision networks. But confirmation has become a little bit like the new manual for us. So we’re now having issues with having the the automate that component and making it consistent with our on premise architecture, making it consistent with azure architecture and Google Cloud. So it’s really interesting to see to see companies now bring that layer of abstraction that SD wan brought to the to the wan side. Now it’s going up into into the cloud working on electric, right? So on the fourth generation of you mentioned, you’re 1/4 gen architecture. What do you guys? What have you learned. Is there any lessons? Scar tissue, what to avoid? What worked? What was some of the It was probably the biggest lesson there Is that when you think you finally figured it out, you haven’t right? Amazon will change something as you change something, you know, transit Gateway, the game changer s O, and listening to the business requirements is probably the biggest thing we need to do up front. But I think from a simplicity perspective, we like I said, we don’t want to do things four times. We want two things. One time we want to go right to an AP. I, which aviatrix has and have them do the orchestration for us so that we don’t have to do it four times. How important is architecture in the progression, is it? You guys get thrown in the deep end to solve these problems or you guys zooming out and looking at it. I mean, how are you guys looking at the architecture? I mean, you can’t get off the ground if you don’t have the network there. So all of those things we’ve gone through similar evolutions. We’re on our fourth or fifth evolution. I think about what? We started off with Amazon without a direct connect gateway without a transit gateway without ah, a lot of the things that are available today kind of the 80 20 that Steve was talking about. Just because it wasn’t there doesn’t mean we didn’t need it. So we needed to figure out a way to do it. We couldn’t say. You need to come back to the network team in a year. Maybe Amazon will have a solution for you. We need to do it now and evolve later and maybe optimize or change. Really? You’re doing things in the future. But don’t sit around and wait.
>>You can’t. I’d love to have you guys each individually answer this question for the livestream that comes up a lot. A lot of cloud architects out in the community. What should they be thinking about? The folks that are coming into this proactively and are realizing the business benefits are there? What advice would you guys give them? An architecture which should be they be thinking about and what some guiding principles you could share.
>>So I would start with ah looking at an architectural model that that can that can spread and and give consistency the different two different cloud vendors that you will absolutely have to support. Um, cloud vendors tend to want to pull you into using their native tool set, and that’s good. If only it was realistic, too. Talk about only one cloud, but because it doesn’t, it’s it’s Ah, it’s super important to talk about and have a conversation with the business and with your technology teams about a consistent model. So that’s the David. Yeah, we’re doing as a group earlier about Day two operations. So how do I design? How do I do my day one work so that I’m not spending 80% of my time troubleshooting or managing my network? Because if I’m doing that, then I’m missing out on ways that I can make. Improvements are embracing new technologies, so it’s really important early on to figure out how do I make this as low maintenance as possible so that I can focus on the things that the team really should be focusing on your advice. The architect. I don’t know what else I can add to. That simplicity of operations is gives key Alright, so the holistic view of Day two operation you mentioned. Let’s could jump in. Day one is you’re getting stuff set up. Day two is your life after. This is what you’re getting at, David. So, what does that look like? What are you envisioning as you look at that 20 mile stare out, post, multi cloud world would have spent the things that you want in a day to operations?
>>Yeah, infrastructure as code is really important to us. So how do we How do we design it So that we can fit start making network changes and putting them into, like, a release pipeline and start looking at it like that rather than somebody logging into a router cli and troubleshooting things on an ad hoc nature. So moving more towards the devil Ops model serving. And on that day two
>>Yeah, I would I would love to add something. So in terms of day two operations, you can You can either sort of ignore the day two operations for a little while where you get well, you get your feet wet, um, or you can start approaching it from the beginning. The fact is that the cloud native tools don’t have a lot of maturity in that space. And when you run into an issue, you’re gonna end up having a bad day going through millions and millions of logs. We just try to understand what’s going on. So that’s something that the industry just now is beginning to realize. It’s It’s such a such a big gap. I think that’s key, because for us, we’re moving to more of an event driven or operations. In the past, monitoring got the job done. It is impossible to modern monitor something that’s not there when the event happens, right, so the event driven application and then detection is important. I think Gardner is about the Cloud Native Wave coming into networking. That’s going to be a serious thing. I want to get you guys perspective. I know you have different views of how you came into the journey and how you’re executing, and I always say the beauty’s in the eye of the beholder, and that kind of applies the networks laid out. So, Bobby, you guys do a lot of high performance encryption both on AWS and Azure. That’s kind of a unique thing for you. How are you seeing that impact with multi cloud. And that’s a new requirement for us to where we, uh we have a requirement to encrypt and they never get the question Should encryption and encrypt. The answer is always yes, you should encrypt. You should get encrypt for perspective. We we need to moderate a bunch of data from our data centers. We have some huge data centers on. Getting that data to the cloud is is timely experience in some cases. So we have been mandated that we have to encrypt everything, leaving the data center. So we’re looking at using the aviatrix insane mode appliances to be able to decrypt, you know, 10 20 gigabytes of data as it move to the cloud itself. David, you’re using terra form. You’ve got fire net. You’ve got a lot of complexity in your network. What do you guys look at the future for your environment?
>>Yes. So something exciting that we’re working on now is fire net. So for our security team, they obviously have a lot of a lot of knowledge based around Polito on with our commitments to our clients, you know, it’s it’s it’s not very easy to shift your security model to a specific cloud vendor it. So there’s a lot of stock, two compliance or things like that where being able to take some of what you’ve you know you’ve worked on for years on Prem and put it in the cloud and have the same type of assurance that things are going to work and be secure in the same way that they are on Prem helps make that journey into the cloud a lot easier because you guys got scripting and a lot of things going on. What’s your What’s your unique angle on this?
>>Um, yeah, No, absolutely so full disclosure. I’m not not not an aviatrix customer yet. It’s okay. We want to hear the truth. So that’s good. Tell us what you’re thinking about. What’s on your mind.
>>No, really, Um, when you when you talk about, um implementing the to like this, it’s it’s really just really important. To talk about automation and focus on on value. So when you talk about things like encryption and things like that, so you’re encrypting tunnels and encrypting the path, and those things are should it should should be second nature, really, when you when you look at building those back ends and managing them with your team. It becomes really painful. So tools like aviatrix that that had a lot of automation. It’s out of out of sight, out of mind. You can focus on the value you don’t have to focus on. I got to ask. You guys are seeing the traces here. They’re their supplier to the sector. But you guys are customers. Everyone’s pitching your stuff that people are not going to buy my stuff. How do you guys have that conversation with the suppliers, like the cloud vendors and other folks? What’s the What’s the leg? Where? FBI? All the way. You got to support this. What are some of the what are some of your requirements? How do you talk to and evaluate people that walk in and want to knock on your door and pitch you something? What’s the conversation like?
>>It’s definitely It’s definitely a P. I driven. Um, we we definitely look at the at the structure of the vendors provide before we select anything. Um, that that is always first of mine. And also what problem are we really trying to solve? Usually people try to sell or try to give us something that isn’t really valuable. Like implementing Cisco solution on the on the cloud isn’t really doesn’t really add a lot of value. That’s what we do know, Dave. What’s your conversations like with suppliers? So you have a certain new way to do things as becomes more agile, essentially networking and more dynamic. What are some of the conversations with the other incumbents or new new vendors that you’re having what you require?
>>So ease of use is definitely, definitely high up there. We’ve had some vendors come in and say, Hey, you know, when you go to set this up, we’re gonna want to send somebody on site and they’re going to sit with you for a day to configure. And that’s kind of a red flag. Wait a minute. You know, we really if one of my really talented engineers can’t figure it out on his own, what’s going on there and why is that? So you know, having having some ease of use and the team being comfortable with it and understanding it is really important. How about you in the old days was do a bake off winner takes all. I mean, is it like that anymore? What’s evolving? Bake off last year for us to win, So But that’s different now, because now when you when you get the product, you install the product in AWS in azure or have it up and running a matter of minutes. And the key is, can you be operational within hours or days instead of weeks? But but do we also have the flexibility to customize it to meet your needs? Because you want to be, you would be put into a box with the other customers who have needs that pastor cut their needs. You can almost see the challenge of you. Guys are living where you’ve got the cloud, immediate value and how you can roll a penny solutions. But then you have might have other needs. So you got to be careful not to buy into stuff that’s not shipping. So you’re trying to be proactive in the same time. Deal with what you got here. How do you guys see that evolving? Because multi cloud to me is definitely relevant, but it’s not yet clear how to implement across. How do you guys look at this? Baked versus, you know, future solutions coming. How do you balance that?
>>Um, so again. So right now we were We’re taking the the ad hoc approach and experimenting with the different concepts of cloud on demand, really leveraging the native constructs of each cloud. But but there’s there’s a breaking point. For sure you don’t you don’t get to scale this like like Simone said. And you have to focus on being able to deliver, Ah, developer their their sandbox play area for the things that they’re trying to build quickly. And the only way to do that is with some sort of consistent orchestration layer that allows you to. So you spent a lot more stuff becoming pretty quickly. I was very. I do expect things to start maturing quite quite quickly this year, and you guys see similar trends. New stuff coming fast. Yeah, the one of the biggest challenge we’ve got now is being able to segment within the network, being able to provide segmentation between production, non production workloads, even businesses, because we support many businesses worldwide and and isolation between those is a key criteria there. So the ability to identify and quickly isolate those workloads is key. So the cios that are watching are saying, Hey, take that hill, do multi cloud and then the bottoms up organization cause you’re kind of like off a little bit. It’s not how it works. I mean, what is the reality in terms of implementing, you know, and as fast as possible because the business benefits are clear, but it’s not always clear in the technology how to move that fast. What are some of the barriers of blockers? One of the enabler, I think the reality is, is that you may not think of multi cloud, but your businesses all right. So I think the biggest barriers there is understanding what the requirements are and how best to meet those requirements. I think in a secure manner, because you need to make sure that things are working from a latency perspective, that things work the way they did and get out of the mind shift that, you know, if the CI three application in the data center, it doesn’t have to be a Tier three application in the cloud, so lift and shift is not the way to go. Scale is a big part of what I see is the competitive advantage of all of these clouds, and it used to be proprietary network stacks in the old days, and then open systems came. That was a good thing. But as clouds become bigger, there’s kind of an inherent lock in there with the scale. How do you guys keep the choice open? How you guys thinking about interoperability? What is some of the conversations that you guys were having around those key concepts?
>>Well, when we look at when we look at the from a networking perspective, it’s really key for you to just enable enable all the all the clouds to be able to communicate between them. Developers will will find a way to use the cloud that best suits their business needs, Um, and and like Like you said, it’s whether whether you’re in denial or not of the multi cloud fact that your company is in already, Um, that’s it becomes really important for you to move quickly. Yeah, and the a lot of it also hinges on how well is the provider embracing what that specific cloud is doing? So are they swimming with Amazon or Azure and just helping facilitate things. They’re doing the heavy lifting AP I work for you or are they swimming upstream? And they’re trying to hack it all together in a messy way, and so that helps you stay out of the lock in. Because there, you know if they’re doing if they’re using Amazon native tools to help you get where you need to be, it’s not like Amazon’s going to release something in the future that completely, uh, you know, makes you have designed yourself into a corner. So the closer they’re more cloud native, they are, the more, uh, the easier it is to, uh to the boy. But you also need to be aligned in such a way that you can take advantage of the cloud Native technology of Limits sets. T. J. W. Is a game changer in terms of cost performance, right. So to completely ignore, that would be wrong. But, you know, if you needed to have encryption, you know, thw encrypted. So you need to have some type of a gateway to do the VPN encryption. So the aviatrix, too, will give you the the beauty of both worlds. You can use T w or the gateway real quick in the last minute. We have. I want to just get a quick feedback from you guys. I hear a lot of people say to me, Hey, the pick. The best cloud for the workload you got, then figure out multi cloud behind the scenes. So that seems to be Do you guys agree with that? I mean, is it doing one cloud across the whole company or this workload works great on AWS. That work was great on this from a cloud standpoint. Do you agree with that premise? And then what is multi cloud stitch them all together?
>>Yeah. Um, from from an application perspective, it it can be per workload, but it can also be an economical decision. Certain enterprise contracts will will pull you in one direction that value. Um, but the the network problem is still the same. It doesn’t go away. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you don’t want to be trying to fit a square into a round hole, right? So if it works better on that cloud provider, then it’s our job to make sure that that service is there.
People can use it. Yeah, I agree. You just need to stay ahead of the game. Make sure that the network infrastructure is there. Secure is available and is multi cloud capable. Yeah. At the end of the day, you guys just validating that. It’s the networking game now. Cloud storage. Compute Check. Networking is where the action is. Awesome. Thanks for your insights. Appreciate you coming on the Cube. Appreciate it. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Right.
>>Okay. Welcome back on the live feed. I’m John Furrier Steve Mallaney, my co host with aviatrix on with the Cube for the special digital event. Our next customer panel. We’ve got great. Another set of cloud Network architect Justin Smith was Aura Justin broadly with Ellie Mae and omit Otri job with Google on the stage.
>>Yeah, All right. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, he’s got all the cliff notes from the last session. Welcome,
>>Rinse and repeat. Yeah, we got to go under the hood a little bit and I think they nailed the what we’ve been reporting and we’ve been having a conversation around. Networking is where the action is, cause that’s the end of the day. You gotta move back from A to B. And yet workloads exchanging data so it’s really killer. So let’s get started. What are you seeing as the journey of of multi cloud as you go under the hood and say, Okay, I got to implement this at Engineer the network. Make it enabling. Make it programmable, make it interoperable across clouds. And that’s like I mean, almost sounds impossible to me. What’s your take?
>>Yeah, I mean it. It seems impossible. But if you’re running an organization, which is running infrastructures, according it is easily doable, like you can use tools out there that’s available today. You can use third party products that can do a better job, but But what? Your architecture first, don’t wait. Architecture may not be perfect, but the best architecture that’s available today and be agile to interior it and make improvements over the time we got to Justin’s over here. So I have to be careful when I pointed questions. Justin, they both have the answer, but okay, journeys. What’s the journey been like? I mean, is there phases? We heard that from Gardner, people come into multi cloud and cloud native networking from different perspective. What’s your take on the journey, Justin?
>>Yeah, I mean, from our first do. We started out very much focused on one cloud. Ah, And as we started acquisitions, we started doing new products. The market The need for multi cloud becomes very apparent very quickly for us. And so, you know, having architecture that we can plug in, play into and be able to add and change things as it changes is super important for what we’re doing in this space. Just in your journey.
>>Yes, for us. We were very ad hoc oriented, and the idea is that we were reinventing all the time trying to move into these new things and coming up with great new ideas. And so, rather than it being some iterative approach with our deployments that became a number of different deployments. And so we shifted that tour and the network has been a real enabler of this is that there’s one network and it touches whatever cloud we wanted to touch on. It touches the data centers that we needed to touch, and it touches the customers that we needed to touch. Our job is to make sure that the services that are available in one of those locations are available in all of the locations. So the idea is not that we need to come up with this new solution every time. It’s that we’re just iterating on what we’ve already decided to do before we get the architecture section, I want to ask you guys a question. A big fan of you know, let the app developers have infrastructure as code, so check, but having the right cloud run that workload. I’m a big fan of that if it works great. But we just heard from the other panel You can’t change the network. So I want to get your thoughts. What is cloud native networking? And is that the engine? Really? That’s the enabler for this multi cloud trend. What? You guys take it. We’ll start with Mitt. What do you think about that?
>>Yes. So you’re gonna have workloads running in different clouds, and the workloads would have affinity to one cloud or another. But how you expose that? It’s a matter of how you’re gonna build your networks, how we’re gonna run security, how you’re gonna do egress. Ingress
>>out offered. So networking is the big problem. How do you suppose this? What’s the solution? That’s the key pain points and problem statement. I think the key pain
>>point for most companies is how do you take your traditional on premise network and then blow it out to the cloud in a way that makes sense? I p conflicts. You have space. You have public eyepiece on premise as well as in the cloud. And how do you kind of make a sense of all of that? And I think that’s where tools like aviatrix make a lot of sense in that space from our side, it’s It’s really simple. It’s latency and bandwidth and availability. These don’t change whether we’re talking about cloud or data center or even corporate I t. Networking. So our job when when these all of these things are simplified into like s three, for instance. And our developers want to use those, we have to be able to deliver that and for a particular group or another group that wants to use just just gc p resource is, these aren’t we have to support these requirements, and these wants, as opposed to saying, Hey, that’s not a good idea. Our job is to enable them not disable them.
>>Do you think I do you guys think? Infrastructure’s code, which I love that because that’s the future it is. We saw that with Dev Ops, but I just start getting the networking. Is it getting down to the network portion where it’s network as code storage and compute? Working really well is seeing all kubernetes on service meshes Trend Network is code.
>>Reality is that there is still got work to do. It’s absolutely there. I mean, you mentioned that develops and it’s very real. I mean, in Cooper, we build our networks through terraform and on not only just data from building a p I, so that we can consistently build we nuts and vpc all across in the same way you got to do it.
>>Yeah, and even security groups and then on top and aviatrix comes in. We can peer the network’s bridge bridge, all the different regions through court.
>>Same with you guys about everything we deploy is done with automation. And then we also run things like Lambda on top to make changes in real time. We don’t make manual changes on our network in the data center. Funny enough, it’s still manual, but the cloud has enabled us to move into this automation mindset. And all my guys, that’s what they focus on, is bringing now what they’re doing in the cloud into the data center, which is kind of opposite what it should be. That’s full when it used to be. It’s full dev ops, then yes, yeah, I mean, for us. It was similar on premise. Still somewhat very manual, though We’re moving more Norton Ninja and Terra form concepts. But everything in the production environment is called Confirmation terraform code and now coming into the data center. So I just wanted to jump in on Justin Smith. One of the comment that you made because it’s something that we always talk about a lot is that the center of gravity of architectures used to be an on Prem. Now it’s shifted in the cloud it once you have your strategic architecture, what what do you do? You push that everywhere. So what you used to see at the beginning of Cloud was pushing the architecture on Prem in the cloud. Now I won’t pick up on what you said. The others agree that the center of architect of gravity is here. I’m now pushing what I do in the cloud back into on Prem. And so first that and then also in the journey. Where are you at? From 0 to 100 of, actually in the journey to cloud Are you 50% There are you 10%. So you evacuating data centers next year? I mean, where are you guys? At
>>So there’s there’s two types of gravity that you typically are dealing with. The migration first is data gravity in your data set and where that data lives. And the second is the network platform that interrupts all that together. In our case, the data gravity sold mostly on Prem. But our network is now extending out to the APP tier that’s gonna be in cloud, right? Eventually that data gravity will also move to cloud as we start getting more sophisticated. But, you know, in our journey, we’re about halfway there, halfway through the process, we’re taking a handle of lift and shift. And when did that start? We started about three years ago. Okay, well, for a it’s a very different story. Started from a garage and 100% in the cloud. It’s a business. Spend management platform as software as a service 100% in the cloud. It was like 10 years ago, right? Yes.
>>Yeah. You guys riding the wave of the architecture? Justin, I want to ask you is or you guys mentioned Dev Ops. I mean, obviously we saw the huge observe Ability way which essentially network management for the cloud. In my opinion, it’s more dynamic, but that’s about visibility. We heard from last panel. You don’t know what’s being turned on or turned off from a services standpoint at any given time. How is all this playing out when you start getting into the Dev Ops down?
>>Well, this this is the big challenge for all of us is visibility when you talk transport within the cloud. You know, we very interesting. We have moved from having a backbone that we bought that we own. That would be data center connectivity. We now I work as a subscription billing company, so we want to support the subscription mindset. So rather than going and buying circuits and having to wait three months to install and then coming up with some way to get things connected and resiliency and redundancy, I my backbone is in the cloud. I use the cloud providers interconnections between regions to transport data across. And so if you do that with their native solutions, you do lose visibility. There are areas in that you don’t get, which is why controlling you know, controllers and having some type of management plane is a requirement for us to do what we’re supposed to and provide consistency while doing it. Great conversation. Love what you said earlier laden c band with I think availability with your SIM pop three things guys s L A and just do ping times between clouds is like you don’t know what you’re getting for round trip times. This becomes a huge kind of risk management. Black hole, whatever you wanna call blind spot How are you guys looking at the interconnect between clouds? Because, you know, I can see that working from ground to cloud on cloud But when you start dealing multi clouds, workloads sl A’s will be all over the map, won’t they? Just inherently. But how do you guys view that?
>>Yeah, I think we talked about workload and we know that the workloads are going to be different in different clouds, but they’re going to be calling each other. So it’s very important to have that visibility that you can see how their data is flowing at what latency and what our ability is is there and over 30 minutes to operate on. So it’s also used the software dashboard, look at the Times and look at the latest in the old days strong. So on open salon, you’re trying to figure it out. And then your data as you look at our
>>Justin, what’s your answer? Because you’re in the middle of it?
>>Yeah. I mean, I think the key thing there is that we have to plan for that failure. We have a plan for that latency and our applications. That something is we’re tracking ingress, Ellie, something you start planning for. And you loosely couple these services in a much more micro services approach. So you actually can handle that kind of failure or that type of unknown latency. And unfortunately, the cloud has made us much better at handling exceptions and much better way. You guys are all great examples of cloud native from day one you guys had When did you have the tipping point moment or the epiphany of saying a multi clouds real. I can’t ignore it. I gotta factored into all my design design principles and everything you’re doing. What? It was there a moment or was it from day one?
>>Now there are 22 reasons. One was the business. So in business there was some affinity to not be in one cloud or to be in one cloud. And that drove from the business side. So as a cloud architect of a responsibility was to support the business. And the other is the technology. Some things are really running better in, like if you’re running dot net workload or you’re gonna run machine learning or yeah, so you have You would have that reference off one cloud or another. So that was the bill that we got from AWS. I mean, that’s that’s what drives a lot of these conversations, is the financial viability of what you’re building on top of which is so we this failure domain idea, which is which is fairly interesting. How do I solve or guarantee against a failure domain You have methodologies with, you know, back in direct connects or interconnect with DCP All of these ideas are something that you have to take into account. But that transport layer should not matter to Whoever we’re building this for. Our job is to deliver the frames in the packets, what that flows across, how you get there. We want to make that seamless. And so whether it’s a public Internet AP I call or it’s a back end connectivity through direct connect, it doesn’t matter. It just has to meet a contract that you signed with your application, folks. That’s the availability piece just in your thoughts on the company.Actually, multi-clouds become something much more recent. In the last 6 to 8 months, I’d say we always kind of had a very dramatic like movie to Amazon from our private cloud is hard enough. Why complicated further but the realities of the business. And then we started seeing, you know, improvements in Google and Azure and different technology. Space is the need for multi cloud becomes much more important as well as other acquisition strategies matured. We’re seeing that companies that used to be on premise that we typically acquire are now very much already on the cloud, and if they’re on a cloud. I need to plug them into our ecosystem. And so that’s really
>>changed our multi cloud story in a big way. I’d love to get your thoughts on the cloud versus the cloud because you know you compare them. Amazon’s got more features. They’re rich with features. I’ll see the bills. Are people using them? But Google’s got a great network. Google’s networks Pretty damn good. And then you’ve got azure. What’s the difference between the clouds? Who? Where they involved with a peak in certain areas, better than others? What? What are the characteristics which makes one cloud better? Do they have a unique feature that makes Azure better, then Google and vice versa. What you guys think about the different clouds?
>>Yeah, so my experience, I think there is a deep approach is different in many places. Google has a different approach, very developer friendly, and you can run your workload with the your network and spend regions. I mean, but our application ready to accept Amazon is evolving. I mean, I remember 10 years back, Amazon’s network was a flat network. We will be launching certain words and 10.0 dot zero slash right on and the repeat came out with life is not good. So So the VPC concept came on multi core came out So they are evolving as you really start. But because they really started sort of patron and they have some mature set up on the growth, I think they’re all trying to say they’re equal in their own ways. I think they all have very specific design philosophies that allow them to be successful in different ways. And you have to kind of keep that in mind as you architect your own solution, for example, Amazon has a very much a very regional affinity. They don’t like to go cross region in their architecture, whereas Google is very much it’s a global network. We’re gonna think about a global solution. I think Google also has evangelists third to market and so has seen what Azure did wrong. It seemed with AWS did wrong and it’s made those improvements and I think that’s one of the big advantage. Great scale to Justin, Thoughts on the cloud.
>>So yeah, Amazon built from the system up, and Google built from the network down, so their ideas and approaches are from a global versus original. I agree with you completely that that is the big number one thing. But if you look at it from the outset, interestingly, the inability or the ability for Amazon to limit layer to broadcasting and what that really means from a vpc perspective changed all the routing protocols. You can use all the things that we have built inside of a data center to provide resiliency and and and make things seamless to users. All of that disappeared on DSO because we had to accept that at the VPC level. Now we have to accept it. At the one level, Google’s done a better job of being able to overcome those things and provide those traditional network facilities to us.
>>Just scrape out go all day. Here is awesome. So I heard Well, we’ll get to the cloud native Naive question. So I kind of think about what’s not even what cloud. I ask that next. But I got to ask. You had a conversation with a friend. He’s like, When is the new land? So if you think about what the land was in a data center, when is the new language you’re talking about the cloud impact. So that means SD win. The old SD Wan is kind of changing the new land.
>>How do you guys look at that? Because even think about it. What lands were for inside of premises was all about networking speed. But now, when you take the wind and make essentially land, do you agree with that? And how do you view this trend? Is it good or bad or ugly? What’s what’s your guys take on this? Yeah,
>>I think it’s Ah, it’s a thing that you had to work with your application architect. So if you’re managing networks and if you’re a sorry engineer, you need to work with them toe expose the unreliability that would bring in. So the application has to handle a lot off this the difference in the latency ease and and the reliability has to be worked with application land way and same concept is a B S E. I think we’ve been talking about for a long time the erosion of the edge and so is this is just a continuation of that journey we’ve been on for the last several years. As we get more and more cloud native and we talk about AP eyes, the ability to lock my data in place and not be able to access it really goes away. And so I think this is just continuation that thing. I think it has challenges. We are talking about land scale versus land scale. The tooling doesn’t work the same. The scale of that tooling is much larger on the need for automation is much, much higher in a way that it wasn’t a land. That’s where you’re seeing so much. Infrastructure is code. Yeah, so for me, I’ll go back again to this. It’s bandwidth and latency, right that that define those to land versus went. But the other thing that’s comes up more and more with cloud deployments is where’s our security boundary? And where can I extend this secure, aware appliance or set of rules to protect what’s inside of it. So for us, we’re able to deliver VM ref. So our route forwarding tables for different segments wherever we’re out in the world and so they’re trusted to talk to each other. But if they’re gonna go to some place that’s outside of their network, that they have to cross the security boundary, and we’ll reinforce policy very heavily. So for me there is. It’s not just land when it’s it’s how does environment get to environment? More importantly, as a great point and security we haven’t talked about yet, but that’s got to be baked in from the beginning of this architecture. Thoughts on Security How you guys are Dealing with it.
>>Yes, start from the base. Have app, Web security built in? Have TLS have encryption on the data in transit or at rest? But as you bring the application to the cloud and they’re going to go multi cloud talking toe or the Internet in some places, well, have app, Web security I mean our principles. Day security is day zero every day, and so we always build it into our design, build into our architecture into our applications. It’s encrypt everything. It’s TLS everywhere. It’s make sure that that data is security at all times. Yeah, one of the cool trends that are say, just as a side note was the data in use encryption piece which is a home or fixed up interesting. Alright, guys, final question. You know, we heard on the earlier panel was also trending at reinvent. We take the tea out of cloud native. It spells cloud naive. They got shirts. Now aviatrix kind of got this trend going. What does that mean to be naive? So if you’re to your peers out there watching the live stream and also the suppliers that are trying to supply you guys with technology and services, what’s naive looked like it was native look like when it’s someone naive about implementing all this stuff.
>>So for me, it’s because we are 100% cloud for us. Its main thing is ready for the change, and you will. You will find new building blocks coming in, and the network design will evolve and change. So don’t be naive and things that are static you want with the change. I think the big naivety that people have is that well, I’ve been doing it this way for 20 years and been successful. It’s going to be successful in cloud. The reality is that’s not the case. You have to think some of the stuff differently, and you need to think about it early enough so that you can become cloud native and really enable your business on cloud. Yet for me, it’s It’s being open minded, right? The our industry, the network industry as a whole has been very much I’m smarter than everybody else. And we’re gonna tell everybody how it’s gonna be done on the way we fell into a law when it came to producing infrastructure and so embracing this idea that we can deploy a new solution or a new environment in minutes as opposed to hours or weeks or months in some cases is really important. And so, you know, so being close minded native, being open minded exactly. And it took for me, it was that was a transformative kind of, uh, where I was looking to solve problems in a cloud way, as opposed to looking to solve problems in this traditional old school way. All right, I know we’re out of time, but I got one more question for you guys. So good. It could be a quick answer. Um, what’s the Bs? Language? When you bs meter goes up when people talk about solutions, what’s the kind of jargon that you here that’s the BS meter going off? What are people talking about that in your opinion. You. Here you go. That’s total Bs. But what triggers?
>>So I have two lines out of movies that are really I can. If I say them without actually thinking them. It’s like 1.21 gigawatts of your of your mind back to the future, right? Somebody’s going to the bank and then and then Martin Ball and and Michael Keaton. And Mr Mom goes to 22 21. Whatever it takes, those two right there. If those go off in my mind where somebody’s talking to me, I know they’re full of baloney. It’s a lot of speeds and feeds a lot of speeds and feeds a lot of data instead of talking about what you’re actually doing in solution for you’re talking about what does this This This is okay, 20 to 20 K. Just take any time. I start seeing the cloud vendors start benchmarking against each other. It’s your workload is your workload. You need a benchmark yourself. Don’t don’t listen to the marketing on that. That’s that’s what triggered you in the BSP.
>>I think if somebody explains you’re not simple, they cannot explain you in simplicity. Then, then it’s all. That’s a good one. All right, guys. Thanks for the great insight. Great. How about a round of applause, right? Yep. Yeah,
>>DXC is solutions integrating company. And we service customers from all industry verticals. And we’re helping them to move to the digital world. So as a solutions integrator, we interface with many, many customers that have many different types of needs. And they’re on their i t journey to modernize their applications into the cloud. So we encounter many different scenarios. Many different reasons for those migrations. All of them seeking to optimize their solutions, better enable their business. We have our CPS organization. It’s cloud platform services. We support AWS, Azure, Google, Alibaba or Co. Will help move those workloads to wherever it’s most appropriate. No one buys the house for the plumbing equally. No one buys solution for the networking. But if the plumbing doesn’t work, no one likes the house.
And this network doesn’t work. No one likes a solution, so network is ubiquitous. It is a key component of every solution we do. The network connectivity is the life blood of any architectures. Without networking activity, nothing works properly Planning and building scalable, robust network that’s going to be able to adapt with the application needs. It’s critical when encountering some network design and talking about speed to deployment. Aviators came up in discussion, and we then further pursued an area. DXC products that incorporate aviatrix is part of a new offering that we are in the process of developing. That really enhances our ability to apply. Cloud connectivity for Alliance Cloud Connectivity is a new line of networking services we’re getting into as our clients move in the hybrid cloud networking.
It is much different than our traditional based services, and the music’s provides a key component in that service. Yeah, before we found aviatrix, we were using just native peering connections. But there wasn’t a way to visualize all those peering connections and with multiple accounts, multiple contexts for security. With aviatrix, we’re able to visualize those different period connections of security groups. It helped a lot, especially in the areas of early deployment. Scenarios were quickly able to then take those deployment scenarios and turn them into scripts that we can then deploy repeatedly. Their solutions were designed to work with the cloud native capabilities first and where those cloud native capabilities fall short. They then have solution sets that augment those capabilities. I was pleasantly surprised. Number one with the aviatrix team as a whole in their level of engagement with us, you know, we weren’t only buying the product. We were buying a team that came on board to help us implement and solution. That was really good to work together, to learn both what aviatrix had to offer as well as enhancements that we had to bring that aviatrix was able to put into their product and meet our needs Even better. Aviatrix was a joy to find because they really provide us the technology that we you needed in order to provide multi cloud connectivity. That really added to the functionality that you can get from the basic providing services. We’re taking our customers on a journey to simplify and optimize their I t infrastructure. Aviatrix certainly has made my job much easier.
>>Okay, welcome back to altitude 2020 for the digital event for the live feed. Welcome back. I’m John Furrier with the Cube with Steve Mullaney, CEO aviatrix for the next panel from global system integrators of folks who are building and working with folks on their journey to multi cloud and cloud native networking got a great panel. George Buckman with D XY and Derek Monaghan with W W t. Welcome to the stage.
>>Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. Yeah. Yeah.
>>Okay. You guys are the ones out there advising, building and getting down and dirty with multi cloud and cloud native networking. We just heard from the customer panel You can see the diversity of where people come into the journey of cloud. It kind of depends upon where you are, but the trends are all clear. Cloud native Networking Dev. Ops up and down the stack. This has been the main engine. What’s your guys take of the journey to multi cloud what you’re seeing? No. Yeah, it’s critical. I mean, we’re seeing all of our enterprise customers enter into this. They’ve been through the migrations of the easy stuff, you know, now they’re trying to optimize and get more improvement. So now the tough stuff is coming on, right? And, you know, they need their data processing near where their data is, so that’s driving them to a multi cloud environment. We heard some of the edge stuff you guys are. You’re seeing this movie before, but now it’s a whole new ballgame. What’s your take?
>>Yeah, so I’ll give you a hint. Our practices not called the cloud practice. It’s the multi cloud practice. And so if that gives you a hint of how we approach things very consultative. And so when we look at what the trends are a little over a year ago, about a year ago we’re having conversations with customers. Let’s build a data center in the cloud. Let’s put some VP sees that sort of firewalls. Put some DNS and other infrastructure out there, and let’s hope it works. This isn’t a science project. So we’re trying to, We’re starting to see is customers are starting to have more of a vision. We’re helping with that consultative nature, but it’s totally based on the business, and you got to start understanding how the lines of business are using the APS. And then we evolve into that next journey, which is a foundational approach to what are some of the problem statement that customers are solving when they come to you? One of the top things that are on there my house with ease of use, agility, all that stuff. But what specifically they did? Digging into some complexity? I think when you look at a multi cloud approach, in my view is network requirements are complex. You know, I think they are. But I think the approach can be Let’s simplify that. So one thing that we try to do and this is how we talk to customers. Let’s just like you simplifying aviatrix simplifies the automation orchestration of cloud networking. We’re trying to simplify the design, the planning, implementation of infrastructure across multiple workloads across multiple platforms. And so the way we do it is we sit down, we look at not just use cases and not just the questions in common. We anticipate we actually build out based on the business and function requirements. We build out a strategy and then create a set of documents and guess what we actually build in the lab and that lab that we platform built proves out with this reference. Architecture actually work. Absolutely. We we implement similar concepts. I mean, they’re proven practices. They work great. So, George, you mentioned that the hard part is now upon us. Are you referring to networking. What specifically are you getting? And Terrence is the easy part. Done that before the enterprises themselves, migrating their more critical APS or more difficult taps into the environments. You know, they just we just scratched the surface. I believe on what enterprises they’re doing to move into the cloud, to optimize their environments, to take advantage of the scale and speed, to deployment and to be able to better enable their businesses. So they’re just now really starting the
you get. You guys see what I talked about in terms of the Cambrian explosion? I mean, you’re both monster system integrators with, you know, top fortune enterprise customers, you know, really rely on you for guidance and consulting and so forth and deploy their networks. Is that something that you have seen? Does that resonate? Did you notice a year and 1/2 ago? All of a sudden, the importance of cloud for enterprise shoot up?
>>Yeah. I mean, we’re seeing it in our internal environment, you know, we’re a huge company ourselves, customer zero. And so we’re experiencing that internal, Okay? Every one of our other customers. So
>>I have another question, but I don’t know the answer to this And the lawyer never asked the question that you don’t know the answer to, but I’m gonna ask it anyway. DXC and WWD massive system integrators. Why aviatrix So great Question, Steve. So I think the way we approach things, I think we have a similar vision of similar strategy. How you approach things, how we approach things, that world wide technology number one. We want to simplify the complexity. And so that’s your number. One priority is let’s take the networking. Let’s simplify it. And I think part
>>of the other, The point I’m making is we have
>>ah, we see this automation piece as not just an afterthought anymore. If you look at what customers care about, visibility and automation is probably the top three, maybe the third on the list, and I think that’s where we see
>>the value. Now. I think the partnership that we’re building and what I would I get excited about is not just putting years in our lab and showing customers how it works. Is co developing a solution with figuring out Hey, how can we make this better? Visibility’s a huge thing in security alone network. Everything’s around visibility. What automation you see happening in terms of progression, Order of operations, if you will. What’s the low hanging fruit? What are people working on now? What are you What are some of the aspirational goals around when you start thinking about multi cloud and automation? Yeah, So I wanted to get back to answer that question. I want to answer your question. You know what led us there and why aviatrix, You know, in working some large internal I t projects and looking at how we’re gonna integrate the solutions. You know, we like to build everything with recipes where network is probably playing catch up in the Dev ops world, but with a dev ops mindset looking to speed to deploy support all those things. So when you start building your recipes to take a little of this, a little of that, you mix it all together. Well, when you look
>>around, you say Wow, look, there’s this big bag of 88. Let me plot that in. That solves
>>a big part of my problems that I have to speed to integrate speed to deploy and the operational views that I need to run this so that was the 11 years about reference architectures. Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, they came with a the full slate of reference architectures already out there and ready to go. That fit our needs. So it’s very, very easy for us to integrate those into our recipes. What do you guys think about all the multi vendor interoperability conversations that have been going on? Choice has been a big part of multi cloud in terms of customers. Want choice didn’t put a workload in the cloud if it works. But this notion of choice and interoperability has become a big conversation.
>>It is, and I think, the approach, and that’s why we talk to customers. It’s let’s let’s speed and the risk of that decision making process. And how do we do that? Cause interoperability is key. You’re not just putting. It’s not just a single
>>vendor. We’re talking, you know, many, many vendors. I mean, think about the average number of cloud applications. A customer uses a
>>business and enterprise business today. You know, it’s it’s above 30th skyrocketing. So what we do and we look at it from the interoperability approach is how to things inter operate. We test it out. We validate it. We build a reference. Architectures says These are the critical design elements. Now let’s build one with aviatrix and show how this
>>works with aviatrix. And I think the important part there, though, is the automation piece that we had to it in visibility. So I think the visibility is what I see. Lacking cross industry today, the cloud native that’s been a big topic in terms of aviatrix that you guys see them coming in. They’re one of the ones that are emerging and the new brands emerging with multi cloud. You still got the old guard incomes with huge footprints. How are customers dealing with that kind of component and dealing with both of them? Yeah. I mean, where we have customers that are ingrained with a particular vendor and, you know, we have partnerships with many vendors. So our objective is to provide a solution that meets that client and you they’ll want multi vendor. They all want interoperability. Correct. Alright. So I got to ask you guys a question. What? We’re defining Day two operations. What does that mean? I mean, you guys are looking at the big business and technical components of architecture. What is day to operations? I mean, what’s the definition of that? Yeah. So I think from our perspective, my
>>experience, we, you know, day to operations, whether it’s not just the, you know, the orchestration piece and setting up and let it lot automate and have some, you know, change control. You’re looking at this from a data perspective. How do we support this ongoing and make it easy to make changes as we evolved. The cloud is very dynamic. The, um the nature of how the fastest
>>expanding the number of features is astonishing trying to keep up to date with a number of just networking capabilities
>>and services that are added. So I think Day two operations starts with a fundamental understanding of, you know, building out supporting customers environments and making it the automation piece Easy
>>from from, you know, distance. Yeah, and you know, taking that to the next level of being able to enable customers to have catalog items that they can pick and choose. Hey, I need this network connectivity from this cloud location back to this on Prem and being able to have that automated and provisioned just simply by ordering for the folks watching out there. Guys take a minute to explain, as you guys are in the trenches doing a lot of good work. What are some of the engagement that you guys get into? How does that progress? What is the what’s what happens there? They call you up and say, Hey, I need a multi cloud or you’re already in there and take us through. Why? How someone can engage to use a global less I to come in and make this thing happen, a typical engagement look like. Yes. So from our perspective, we typically have a series of workshops and a methodology that we kind of go along the journey.
Number one. We have a foundational approach and I don’t mean foundation, meaning the Network Foundation. That’s a very critical element. We got a factor in security. We got a factor in automation, so we think about foundation. We
>>do a workshop that starts with education. A lot of times we’ll go in and we’ll just educate the customer. What is VPC share? You know what is a private link in azure? How does that impact your business? We have customers that want to share services out in an ecosystem with other customers and partners. Well, there’s many ways to accomplish that. So our goal is to understand those requirements and then build
>>that strategy with them. Thoughts on Yeah. I mean, I’m one of the guys. It’s down in the weeds making things happen. So I’m not the guy on the front line interfacing with the customers every day. But we have a similar approach, and we have a consulting practice that will go out and apply their practices to see what and when do you parachute in? Yeah, when I say is, I’m on the back end working with our offering. Development leads for networking So we understand you’re seeing what customers are asking for and we’re in the back end developing the solutions that integrate with our own offerings, as well as enable other customers that just deploy quickly to meet their connectivity needs. So the patterns air similar Final question for you guys. I want to ask you to paint a picture of what success looks like and you know, the name customers, you know, to get revealed kind of who they are. But what does success look like in multi cloud. You paint a picture for the folks here and watching the Livestream. If someone says, Hey, I want to be multi cloud. I have my operations agile. I want Full Dev ops. I want program ability, security built in from day zero. What does success look like? Yeah, I
>>think success looks like this. So when you’re building out a network, the network is a harder thing to change than some other aspects of cloud. So what we think is, even if you’re thinking about that second cloud, which we have, most of our customers are on to public clouds. Today they might be dabbling is you build that never foundation an architecture that takes in consideration where you’re going. And so once we start building that reference architecture out that shows this is how to approach it from a multi cloud perspective, not a single cloud. And let’s not forget their branches. Let’s not forget our data centers. Let’s not forget how all this connects together, cause that’s how we define multi cloud. It’s not just in the cloud, it’s on Prem and it’s off from, and so collectively I think the key is also is that we provide them in HLD. You got to start with a high level design that can be tweaked. You go through the journey, but you got to give a salad structural foundation and that networking which we think most customers think as not not the network engineers put as
>>an afterthought. We want to make that the most critical element. Before you start the journey, George from your seat had a success look for you. So you know, it starts out on these journeys often start out people not even thinking about what is gonna happen with what their network needs are when they start their migration journey to the cloud. So I want the success to me. Looks like them being able to end up not worrying about what’s happening in the network when they move to the cloud. Guys, great insight. Thanks for coming on. Sharing a round of applause for the global
>>system integrators. All right. Thank you. Right. Yeah, yeah.
>>Okay. Welcome back from the live feed. I’m John for the Cube. Steve Levy, CEO of Aviatrix, My co host. Our next panel is the aviatrix certified engineers, also known as Aces. This is the folks that are certified their engineering. They’re building these new solutions. Please welcome Toby Foster Informatica Stacy Linear from terror data. And Jennifer read with Victor Davis to the stage.
>>So we’re gonna show us a jacket. Yeah, get it?
>>I was just gonna I was just gonna really rib you guys. See, where’s your jackets? And Jen’s got the jacket on. Okay.
>>Good. Love. The aviators. Aces, pilot gear. They’re above the clouds, storage and new heights. So guys, aviatrix space is love the name. I think it’s great. Certified. This is all about getting things engineered. So that level of certification I want to get into that. But
>>first take us through the
>>day in the life of an ace. And just to point out, Stacy’s a squad leader. So he’s He’s like Squadron leader, quadrant leader, quadrant leader. So it’s got a bunch of pieces underneath him, but share your perspective day in the life of we’ll start with you.
>>Sure. So I have actually a whole team that works for me both in the in the North America, both in the U. S. And in Mexico. And so I’m eagerly working to get them certified as well, so I can become a squad leader myself. Um, but its important because one of the critical gaps that we found is people having the networking background. Because there you graduate from college and you have a lot of computer science background. You can program. We’ve got python, but now working and packets they just don’t get. And so just taking them through all of the processes that it’s really necessary to understand when you’re troubleshooting is really critical. And, um, because you’re going to get an issue where you need to figure out where exactly is that happening on the network, you know, is by my issue just in a vpc is on the instance. Side is a security group or is it going on prim? And is this something actually embedded within Amazon itself? I mean, I trouble shot an issue for about six months going back and forth with Amazon, and it was the VW VPN because they were auto scaling on two sides and we ended up having to pull out the Cisco’s and put in aviatrix so I could just say OK, it’s fixed and actually actually help the application teams get to that and get it solved. But I’m taking a lot of junior people and getting them through that certification process so they can understand and see the network The way I see the network, I mean, look, I’ve been doing this for 25 years, but I got out when I went in the Marine Corps. That’s what I did and coming out The network is still the network, but people don’t get the same training they get. They got
>>its just so he just write some software that takes care of itself. But I’ll come back to that. I want to come back to that problem solve with Amazon. But I think
>>the only thing I have to add to that is that it’s always the network, long as I’ve been in, never always been the network’s fault in the I’m even to this day, you know, still, the network’s fault and part of being a network guy is that you need to prove when it is and when it’s not your fault, and that means you need
>>to know a little bit about 100 different things. Make that and now you got a full stack. Dev Ops you know a lot more time. Another 100 times are changing your squadron leader. I get that right. What
>>is? What is the
>>squadron leader first? Could you describe what it is?
>>I think it’s probably just leading all the network components of it. But they from my perspective when you think about what you asked them was it’s about no issues and the escalations off my days like that, that’s
>>a good outcome. That’s a good day. Is a good day’s a good day for you. Mention the Amazon. This brings up a good point when you have these new waves come in. You have a lot of new things. New use cases, a lot of the finger point against that guy’s problem at girls problems.
>>How do you solve that? And how do you
>>get the young guns up to speed? Is there training is that this with a certification comes in,
>>whatever the certification is really going to come in? I know when we, uh, we got together at reinvent one of the questions that that we had with with Steven the team was what? What should our certification look like? You know, she would just be teaching about what aviatrix troubleshooting brings to bear. But what should that be like? And I think Toby and I was like, No, no, no, no, that’s going a little too high. We need to get really low because the better someone can get actually understanding what’s actually happening in the network and where to actually troubleshoot the problem, how to step back each of those processes. Because without that, it’s just a big black box. And they don’t know, you know, because everything is abstracted in Amazon and a Net and Azure and Google. It’s abstracted, and they have these virtual gateways they have VPN is that you just don’t have the logs on is you just don’t know. And so then what tools can you put in front of them of where they can look? Because there are full logs? Well, as long as he turned on the flow logs when I built it, you know, and there’s like each one of those little things that well, if they had decided to do that when they built it, it’s there. But if you can come in later to really supplement that with training to actual troubleshoot and do a packet capture here as it’s going through the teaching them how to read that. Even
>>we were talking before we came on up on stage about your career. You’ve been networking all your time, and then, you know, you’re no mentoring a lot of younger people. How is that going? Because the people who come in fresh, they don’t have all the old war stories they don’t talk about. You know, it’s never fall. I walk in bare feet in the snow when I was your age, So easy now, right? They say, What’s your take on how you train the young piece?
>>So I’ve noticed two things. One is that they are up to speed a lot faster in generalities of networking. They can tell you what network is in high school level now where I didn’t learn that until midway through my career, and they’re learning it faster, but they don’t necessarily understand why it’s that way here. You know, everybody thinks that it’s always slash 24 for a submit, and they don’t understand why you can break it down smaller what? It’s really necessary. So the ramp up speed is much faster for these guys that are coming in, but they don’t understand why. And they need some of that background knowledge to see where it’s coming from. And why is it important? And that’s old guys, that
>>where we thrive. Jennifer, you mentioned you got in from the Marines helps. But when you got into networking, how what was it like that? And compare it now? Almost like we heard earlier. Static courses, dynamic. Don’t be static. And then you just set the network. You got a perimeter?
>>You know, there was no such thing. Yeah, no. So, back in the day, I mean, yeah, I mean, we had banyan vines for email, you know, we had token ring, and I had to set up token ring networks and figure out why that didn’t work. Because how many of things were actually sharing it? But then, actually, just cutting fiber and running fiber cables and dropping them over, you know, shelters to plug them in, and, Oh, crap. They swung it too hard and shattered. And I got a great polish this thing and actually shoot like to see if it works. I mean, that was the network crypto five cat five cables to run an Ethernet, you know? And then from that to set network switches. Dumb switches like those were the most common ones you had then actually configuring routers and, you know, logging into a Cisco router and actually knowing how to configure that.
And it was funny because I had gone all the way up and was a software product manager for a while. So I’ve gone all the way up the stack, and then, ah, two and 1/2 3 years ago, I came across to, uh, to work with NTT Group that became Victor Davis. But we went to help one of our customers, Avis, and it was like, Okay, so we need to fix the network. Okay, I haven’t done this in 20 years, but all right, let’s get to it, you know, because it really fundamentally does not change. It’s still the network. I mean, I’ve had people tell me Well, you know, when we go to containers, we will not have to worry about the network. And I’m like, yeah, you don’t I
>>dio and then with this with program ability is really interesting. So I think this brings up the certification. What are some of the new things that people should be aware of that come in with the aviatrix. A certification. What are some of the highlights? Can you guys share some of the highlights around certifications?
>>I think some of the importance is that its it doesn’t need to be vendor specific for network generality or basic networking knowledge. And instead of learning how Cisco does something or how Palo Alto does something, we need to understand how and why it works as a basic model and then understand how each vendor has gone about that problem and solve it in a general. That’s true in Multi Cloud as well. You can’t learn how cloud networking works without understanding how AWS manager and GC P R. All slightly the same, but slightly different. And some things work. And some things don’t. I think that’s
>>probably the number one take. I think having a certification across clouds is really valuable because we heard the global outside of the business issues. What does it mean to do? That code is that networking is the configurations that aviatrix what is the state matrix is a certification, but what is it about the multi cloud that makes it multi networking and multi vendor. But the
>>easy answer is yes, yes, it’s all
>>got to be a general. Let’s get your hands and you have to be
>>right. And it takes experience because it’s every every cloud vendor has their own certification. Um, whether that stops and, um, advanced networking and events, security or whatever it might be. Yeah, they can take the test, but they have no idea how to figure out what’s wrong with that system in the same thing with any certification. But it’s really getting your hands in there and actually having to troubleshoot the problems, you know, actually work the problem, you know, and calm down. It’s going to be OK because I don’t know how many calls have been on or even had aviatrix join me on. It’s like, Okay, so everyone calm down. Let’s figure out what’s happening. It’s like we’ve looked at that screen three times looking at it again. It’s not going to solve that problem, right, but at the same time remaining calm, but knowing that it really is, I’m getting a packet from here to go over here. It’s not working. So what could be the problem, you know, and actually stepping them through those scenarios. But that’s like, you only get that by having and to do it, you know, and and seeing it and going through it, I
>>have a question. So, you know, I just see it. We started this program maybe six months ago. We’re seeing a huge amount of interest. I mean, where oversubscribed on all the training sessions, we’ve got people flying from around the country, even with Corona virus flying to go to Seattle to go to these events were over subscribed. Good is that originally they would put their Yeah. Is that something that you see in your organizations? Are you recommending that two people do you see? I mean, I’m just get some surprises. Not surprised. But I’m really surprised by the demand, if you would. Of this multi cloud network certification. Is there really isn’t anything like that? Is that something you guys could comment on that? Do you see the same things in your organization I see from my side? Because we operate in a multi cloud environments that really helps in It’s beneficial. Yeah, I think I would add that, um, networking guys have always needed to use certifications to prove that they know what they know. It’s not good enough to say, Yeah, I know. I p addresses that. I know how the network works and a couple little check marks. Our little letters by your helps give you validity. So even in our team, we can say, Hey, you know, we’re using these certifications to know that you know enough of the basics and enough of the understandings that you have the tools necessary, right? So
>>I guess my final question for you guys is why, and a certification is relevant. And then second part is share with Livestream folks who aren’t yet a certified or might want to jump in to be aviator certified engineers. Why is it important? So why is it relevant? And why should someone want to be a certified engineer? I
>>think my view is a little different. I think certification comes from proving that you have the knowledge not proving that you get a certification to get. I mean, they’re backwards. So when you’ve got the training and the understanding in the you use that to prove and you can grow your certification list with it versus studying for a test to get a certification and have no understanding
>>of that. So that who is the right person that look at this and say I’m qualified is a network engineer. Is that a Dev ops person? What your view? Is it a certain you know, I
>>think Cloud is really the answer. It’s the as we talked like the edge is getting eroded. So is the network definition is getting eroded. We’re getting more and more of some network. Some develop some security lots and lots of security. Because network is so involved in so many of them, that’s just the next progression.
>>You want to add something there,
>>I would say I expect that to more automation engineers because we have those now, so I’m probably extended.
>>Well, I think the training classes themselves are helpful, especially the entry level ones for people who maybe quote unquote cloud architects but have never done anything in networking. For them to understand why we need those things to really work, whether or not they go through, eventually get a certification is something different. But I really think fundamentally understanding how these things work, it makes them a better architect. Make some better application developer, but even more so as you deploy more of your applications into the cloud. Really getting an understanding even from our people have tradition down on Prem networking. They can understand how that’s gonna work in the cloud.
>>I know we’ve got just under 30 seconds left. I want to get one more question than just one more for the folks watching that are maybe younger than I don’t have. The networking training from your experience is, each of you can answer. Why should they know about networking? What’s the benefit? What’s in it for them? Motivate them, share some insights and why they should go a little deeper and networking space we’ll start with, You know, I
>>would say it’s probably fundamental, right? If you don’t deliver solutions networking, use the very top. I would say, if you fundamental of an operating system running on a machine. How those machines talk together, um, is a fundamental change is something that start from the base and work your way up.
>>Well, I think it’s a challenge because you’ve come from top down. Now you’re going to start looking from bottom up and you want those different systems to cross, communicate and say you built something in your overlapping eyepiece space. Not that that doesn’t happen. But how can I actually make that still operate without having to re? I re platform? It’s like those challenges, like those younger developers or Cisco engineers can really start to get their hands around and understand those complexities and bring that forward in their careers.
>>And, you know, the pipes are working plumbing.
>>And they know how it works. How to code it.
>>Awesome. Thank you, guys for great insights. Ace AWS certified engineers, also known as aces, give a round of applause.
>>Yeah, right. That’s great. Thank you. Okay, alright, that
>>concludes my portion. Thank you, Steve. Thanks for having
>>us. Thank you very much. That was fantastic. Everybody
>>running Plus John Furrier. So Great
>>event. Great event. I’m not gonna take long. We got we got lunch outside for the people here. Just a couple of things. Just call the action. Right. So we saw the aces. You know, for those of you out of the stream, here, become a certified. It’s great for your career is great for not knowledge is is fantastic. It’s not just an aviatrix thing. It’s going to teach you about cloud networking, multi cloud networking with a little bit of aviatrix, exactly what the Cisco CC IE program was for I p Network. That type of the thing that’s number one second thing is, is is, is learn, right? So there’s a There’s a link up there for the for to join the community again. Like I started this. This is a community. This is the kickoff to this community, and it’s a movement. So go to what may be, um, community dot IBM dot com Starting a community of multi cloud. So you get trained, learn. I’d say The next thing is we’re doing over 100 seminars in across the United States and also starting into Europe. Soon we will come out and we’ll actually spend a couple hours and talk about architecture and talk about those beginning things.
For those of you on the, you know, on the live stream in here as well, you know, we’re coming to a city near you. Go to one of those events. It’s a great way to network with other people that are in the industry as well is to start to learn and get on that multi cloud journey. And then I’d say the last thing is, you know, we haven’t talked a lot about what aviatrix does here, and that’s intentional. We want you, you know, leaving with wanting to gnome or and schedule, get with us and schedule a multi our architecture workshop sessions. So we we sit down with customers and we talk about where they’re at in that journey and, more importantly, where they’re going and define that end state architecture from networking, compute storage, everything and everything you’ve heard Today. Every panel kept talking about architecture, talking about operations. Those are the types of things that we saw. We help. You could define that canonical architecture that system architecture, that’s yours. So for so many of our customers, they have three by five plotted lucid charts, architectural drawings, and it’s the customer name slash aviatrix our network architecture, and they put it on the whiteboard. That’s what we do, and that’s the most valuable thing they get from us. So this becomes there 20 year network architecture, drawing that they don’t do anything without talking us, and look at that architecture.
That’s what we do in these multi hour workshop sessions with customers. And that’s super super powerful. So if you’re interested, definitely call us. And let’s schedule that with our team. So anyway, I just want to thank everybody on the livestream. Thank everybody here. Hopefully it was It was very useful. I think it waas and joined the movement. And for those of you here, join us for lunch and thank you very much.
>>Yeah, yeah, yeah.